Winning Your Horse’s Heart: An Interview with Erin Sauer
by Gina McKnight
No Duplication Without Permission
Today we’re joined by Erin Sauer, the equine bodyworker and educator behind Winning Your Horse’s Heart. Erin has built a thoughtful, horse centered approach that helps owners understand tension, communication, and connection in a deeper way. Through her teaching and hands on work, she guides people to notice what their horses are expressing and to respond with clarity and compassion.
In this conversation, we explore how Erin developed her philosophy, why tension patterns matter more than most riders realize, and how small shifts in awareness can transform the relationship between horse and human.
Welcome, Erin!
GM: What first inspired you to focus on winning your horse's heart rather than traditional training goals?
ES: I've had time to think about this over the years, and what I found was, I knew enough about myself to know that if I worked four to five other horses for a job, I was not going to want to come home to work my own horse. I would have sacrificed my own love of horses to make it a job.
When I started looking into massage I hoped that even if I massaged horses during the day I would still want to come home and train and ride my own. I found with massage, I never burn out on working with my own horses. That's been really positive for me. I'm able to stay recharged in both helping other people's horses and continuing to be glad to work with my own. They're separate enough that I don't get burnout, and they're similar enough that I get to enjoy them both as much as I can.
GM: When you bring in a new horse, what's the very first thing you pay attention to in order to understand who they are?
ES: Such a great question. When I introduce myself to a horse, those first couple minutes are really important to me. I just like to say hello, and their reaction is going to tell me a lot about them.
The first thing I do when I approach a stall is look at where they're standing, how they're standing, what they're interacting with. I pay attention to their reaction to me walking up. If I have a horse that's standing at the far wall with his head in the corner, and I say hello and he doesn't leave that wall, then I know they're probably more introverted and I'm going to have to move slow. If I walk up and say, "Hey, how are you doing?" while I hold my hand out, and the horse immediately comes up to me and smells my hand, then I have a more extroverted horse, probably a little bit more confident. Those are two different horses, and that is going to lead how I proceed in the massage.
A lot of times those more introverted horses just take a little bit more time. I'm going to give them more breaks and step out of their space. They generally like to have about four to five feet so they can process the work better. If you give them space, they have a chance to feel what you're doing along with process what it is doing to their body. Normally, about halfway through the massage—I find this very interesting—those horses have a moment where something has just clicked with them. They suddenly become very interested in me and make it a point to investigate me further. I love that moment. I love when they decide that they want to know who I am. They make a point to get a good smell and really take a look at those hands of mine. At that point I can tell that I have won them over. The next time I walk down that stall, they're going to remember who I am.
The more extroverted horses, you don't have to work as hard to win them over. They want to know what you're up to. This allows me to get to work faster. They don't normally need as many breaks, although I always give them breaks just because you never know what you're going to find. But they're not as guarded.
I can share a fun story with you. I was meeting a new client, and he had been shipped from overseas—I believe he came from Spain—so he had a long trip. As I approached the stall, the owner grabbed his halter and started to open his gate. And I just said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, he's not ready for that yet." He was standing at the far wall, relaxed, head down. But when we walked up and she was about to go in the stall door, his head went up and his eyes got really big. I was just like, "Whoa, let's just take a second and let him decide if he'd like to come over and say hello."
I didn't think he would because he looked a bit nervous. So I just said, "Hey, buddy, how you doing?" We stood there and I turned my body—didn't face him, had my shoulder toward him. I just talked to him, said his name a couple times so he knew that I was talking to him. And he relaxed more and took a deep breath. And then I was like, "All right, awesome. That's what I was waiting for."
I asked for the halter because we have a tendency, when we have an appointment or a lesson or plans, to think about what we want to accomplish. We're goal-oriented, task-oriented people. And sometimes having that strong intention of needing to get to work right away is too much for whatever horse is in front of you. I like to just take my time. I'm not in a rush. I don't set my appointments up so I have to knock out a one-hour massage and then bam, bam, bam, keep massaging. I have plenty of time in between massages in case one goes late or a particular horse has a lot of tension or needs more time. Having that mentality of not being in a rush can really help the horses that are uneasy.
I asked for the halter, stepped in the stall, and gave him another chance. I still didn't approach him. He was curious about me at that point, so he put his head down and took two steps toward me. I said, "Good boy. How you doing?" And I just started talking to him. Eventually he walked over to me on his own. That was two, three minutes out of my day just to help him feel more comfortable with who I was. I gave him the opportunity to take his time and make a decision on when he wanted to come see me. He walked over, I held the halter open, and he put his face in the halter.
It was a beautiful situation where I got to show him that I don't have an agenda. I'm not in a rush. I'm just here to help you relieve tension, have a good day, and feel better. I was open to do whatever he needed me to do.
GM: Your work emphasizes connection over control. Was there a particular horse who taught you that lesson in a big way?
ES: Yes, my red mare taught me that in a big way. When I got her, she was what I call feral. She wasn't wild, but she was not domesticated. She wasn't gonna play by the rule book. She wasn't going to accept being treated in particular ways, and that is probably why she ended up at the auction in the kill pen.
She had requirements of how she wanted to be worked with. Any form of control, manipulation, or pain and you could guarantee a bad session was headed your direction. She was so reactive and guarded when I got her it was a serious safety issue. Some horses can push around and some you cannot. Luckily, I could tell by the look on her face she was not a horse to be bullied. I always said, “she just isn’t a horse to be trifled with.” On the flip side of that, she would always do what I asked her to do if I could figure out how she wanted to be asked or if there was a better way. A lot of people don’t want to deal with that, so the relationship would deteriorate very quickly.
I have some amazing stories about her. Something as simple as this: I was used to just taking the halter and walking up to a horse, any horse and putting it on. I never even thought about it. That's what we do. We don’t really consider asking them, we just put their face in the halter. Well, she didn't appreciate that. I very quickly realized she refuses to put her face in the halter when I approach her like that. She wouldn’t do anything bad, but she would take her head away from me.
So one day I decided, I'm gonna walk up to her, hold the halter open next to her face, and ask her to put her face in the halter. Now a lot of people will put their arm over the neck of the horse. Control. Loop the halter over the nose so they can't do that. Well, that's fine if you aren't looking for a relationship. I want to have a relationship. I want her to be fine with putting the halter on, not do it because she doesn't have anywhere else to go.
So I held the halter to the side of her face and asked in a questioning tone, "Can you put your head in this halter?" She stood there and didn't move, but she looked out of the side of her eye at me for just a second. I thought, that's funny. I wonder if that's a coincidence. So I continued to stand there with the halter offered to her. I asked again, "Would it be okay if I put this halter on you?" She stood again and didn't move.
Listen, she knew what I wanted her to do. She's had a halter on her before. So I said, "I have all day." That is a phrase I use, whether it's training, working with them, putting a halter on, getting them in a trailer, or doing massage. I will literally say out loud, "I have all day. I have nowhere else to go." There’s a lot of power in those words.
So I stood there and said, "May I put this halter on you?" And I'm not joking you, she slightly turned her nose toward me and nodded the most regal nod you've ever seen in your life. The queen's nod. I was like, “no way. Did she just nod yes to me?” So here's the test. I said, "I'm going to take that as a yes." I reached over to put the halter on her and she didn't move her head away. No way!, I thought, that's wild!
The next day I did it again. I asked permission to put the halter on her. She stood again, stoic, head up. But I waited her out, and she eventually turned toward me and gave me that same nod. At that point I realized, this how we're going to communicate. She's going to give me this queen's nod to let me know I can proceed to put the halter on. I no longer have to ask in that way. There is still a slight hesitation, instead of assumption, when I go to put it on, but she has never refused like she did before.
It was a major turning point in how I looked at horses, especially your stoic horses or your shut-down horses. I started asking their permission instead of assuming they don’t have an opinion about it. That was a big turning point for me and how I worked and communicated with them.
GM: For riders who feel stuck or disconnected from their horse, what's one small shift you've seen make a surprisingly big difference?
ES: We are driven people, right? When you go out to the barn, you have things you want to do and a plan on how you are going to do them. This being intentional about getting stuff done can really be a problem for some horses, especially if they're insecure. Horses have good and bad days, but sometimes we have a tendency to ignore how the horse is doing and just focus on our goals.
You can get disconnected with horses by not listening to what they're trying to tell you. Winning Your Horse’s Heart became a thing because I would come to massage horses, but I would learn so much about their emotions, their personality, and what they needed from me while I was working on them. It changed from releasing muscles to helping them find a place of relaxation—mental, emotional, or physical. My original goal was physical relaxation, but I very quickly found that emotional relaxation is huge. Some horses don't have a lot of physical tension, but emotionally they're an absolute train wreck. A lot of horses have a bit of both.
One way I address that is by taking breaks. I step back from my agenda of "I have one hour to do a massage, they look tight here and here" and ask myself, what does this horse need from me today? Sometimes it's more emotional—being listened to and recognizing cues that they're giving me. Not just recognizing them and going, "Oh, okay, I see that," but recognizing them and responding to them.
Sometimes if they itch a particular spot, I'll go to that spot and itch it, just to show them I see what they are doing. Sometimes they get nervous, or guard areas of tension. This is where I have to help them through to the other side. A lot of times what happens is horses show you that they're nervous, or they don’t like something, and then we go, "Okay, I won't do that." Well, what if the horse needs help with that? I don’t want horses holding tension or discomfort. I am there to help them get rid of that. I have to help them through the problem not just acknowledge it or ignore it. If it's something that I can help them through, then that's what I'm going to do, and they can just “thank me later.” I acknowledge the tension or discomfort, give them options and choices, I stay present in helping them through, and we get to the other side, together. They don’t have to “deal with it.” We both come through to the other side, into relaxation and relief. It sometimes isn’t pretty while it’s happening but it’s better to go through something with someone who can help then to just try to “deal” with it on your own.
In other situations, they need you to back off a bit. Being able to read whether a horse needs you to help them through something or if they need you to back off and figure out a different way has been really beneficial in winning the trust of a lot of horses.
As a general rule, if they need me to back off, they escalate. At that point, I either soften, change my stroke, or find a different method. But if they're holding strong, I just stick with them, keep talking to them, keep myself calm, and take them through that until they're actually able to reach relaxation or release of tension. The confidence and the relationship that's formed between us is pretty unbreakable at that point.
I've helped some horses get rid of tension that I'm positive they've been carrying around for years. What's beautiful about it is when I come back to check on them, that tension isn't back. It's gone and it's never come back. I have a lot of horses in that situation. Sometimes tension comes back, but sometimes once I get it out, it's gone . It was just something they couldn’t shake on their own. They were carrying that around for who knows how long, and I was able to get it out in one session because I was able to take them through that discomfort and anxiety.
GM: You hear a lot about emotional awareness in horsemanship. How has your own personal growth shaped the way you work with horses today?
ES: I don't have agendas. I think that's what has helped me be successful with the particular horses that a lot of people are unsuccessful with. I love little tiny victories, and I mean tiny victories. A big blowout from a stoic horse is music to my ears. A horse that holds his head high all the time, relaxing down and dropping that head four inches? Gorgeous.
Being happy with small victories and being less driven for goals has allowed me more freedom. I can try different things, be aware of different personalities of horses, and not feel like I should be doing this or should be doing that. I don't compare myself to other people. I joke that I am the world's slowest trainer. I joke that my mare is on an 18-year plan—eventually she'll be finished someday.
Along with doing equine massage, I have a tendency to attract horses that have emotional issues. They just end up at my house somehow. I get horses that have explosive emotional outbursts, horses that like to buck people off, horses that like to kick people. I take a lot of time with them because I take agendas and timelines out of it. I try not to compare myself to other people and what they can accomplish in 30, 60, or 90 days.
This also applies to massaging a horse. I'll probably get through the whole horse, but if I don't—and I haven't hit a two-hour massage before—I'm just going to talk to the owner and say, "Listen, this is what I got done. I'm going to have to come back." I'm not here to prove anything to anybody. I am literally here to help a horse feel better and be emotionally and physically healthy. Those are my goals.
When those are your goals, instead of "I'd like to have this happen, this happen, this happen," it takes a lot of pressure off because little tiny victories can be all you need to be happy with your session or with your training.
GM: If someone shadowed you for a day, what part of the process do you think would surprise them the most?
ES: The interaction that goes on between me and the horse I'm working on, and the smallest cues—the smallest things that horses do that tell you a lot.
Extroverted horses are like people who talk a lot. With them, you have to be able to decipher what's important in what they're saying and what's just them talking. With introverted or stoic horses, you have to look at the smallest cues to see what they think about something.
With stoic horses, I look at their eyes and how they're blinking. I look at their breathing—that's huge. I look at what their nostril is doing. I look at if they look back at me for a split second. You have to pay attention to the smallest things on stoic horses. But when you do, and you respond to those things—either by bringing attention to it, talking to them, going back to the place where they had a cue, or waiting them out—they notice.
If a horse who's really stoic holds their breath all of a sudden, that's a way they cope with or protect themselves when they feel worried. Horses are masters of intention. I talk about that all the time. They can hear the change in your tone of voice. They can feel when you slow down. They can tell when you're looking at them. They can tell when you're paying attention.
So if I find a tight spot on their body and they start holding their breath, I'm going to acknowledge it verbally. I'm going to stop or slow down my work so they know I'm changing what I'm doing. That's one way I show them I'm paying attention. Then I'm either going to wait for them to relax or see if I can loosen that area and bring relief. I might back off whatever move I'm doing, whatever stroke I'm using, or however much intensity I have. I change my actions based off their feedback. It's a two-sided conversation that is going on.
Stoic horses very quickly know who pays attention to them and who doesn't. That's the biggest thing people will be surprised about. I'll point out, "Do you see how pointy that nostril is? I want that nostril to be round and fluffy." Then I continue to work, and they'll have a physiological release or an emotional release and I'll say, "Look at the nostril now."
Little things like that are shocking to a lot of people, and they begin to realize they need to pay more attention to small cues their horses are giving. Nothing's a coincidence. Was that a fly or was that a release? I'm not sure. Consider it a release, then go back and check your work. If there's an improvement, great. If not, oh well, it was a fly.
I pay a lot of attention to little things that horses do, and I don't consider anything a fluke. I don't consider anything to be a coincidence.
GM: You work with a wide range of horses and humans. What's one success story that makes you smile when you think about it?
ES: Oh my gosh, I have so many of those stories. I've had some amazing things happen not only with me, but with people who take my online course or do personal coaching with me. I've seen them transform their horses in front of my eyes.
There is one story in particular, I think about often. This is actually why I started my podcast—one of the reasons. I tell this story a lot because it was so profound for this particular horse and I had never had something like it happen before. Still nothing to the same degree.
I got called out to work on two horses—one I had already worked on, and her friend wanted her horse massaged also. While I was working on my first client, the other person brought their horse out to brush him. The problem was he was biting at her the entire time—ears back, stomping, swishing his tail, coming around to bite. She was doing some impressive self-defense moves to keep him from biting her. I thought to myself, “that's the horse I have to massage next. How is that going to work if he's trying to take her arm off just from brushing?”
I finished up with my first client and had the second client bring her horse in. I got a little backstory. It used to be her brother's horse. He's a thoroughbred who used to be on the track but hasn't been for years. I said, "So, does he always bite at you like that?" She said, "Yeah, he's done that for a really long time." Her brother used to think it was funny to poke him in the ribs and get him to bite. He would do it as a joke in front of his friends.
When I heard that, my heart broke for that horse. He had been the source of ridicule and games. Luckily, the sister got that horse, and obviously she never did anything like that to him. But he never got healing from that. He was never able to shake that past. I was having a hard time not thinking about that as I started working on him.
I started how I normally do—light pressure effleurage over his whole body, checking him. But the strangest thing happened. I couldn't make it over his whole body. I only got about halfway through to his ribs when it felt like he dumped a whole bunch of emotional garbage on me.
Remember, this is a brand new client. I don't know who she is. I don't know anything about her. I'm standing there and I feel like this horse is dumping emotional garbage on me to the point where I got lightheaded. I had a very heavy feeling coming down on my whole body. I was worried I was going to pass out. So I put both my hands on him and said something like, "Oh, I'm just gonna see if I can release some tension right here." I held onto him so I didn't fall down.
That pressure lasted about 30 seconds, which is a really long time to have it feel like a horse is dumping years of emotional baggage on me. I just kept talking to him—"Good boy. Yep, I got you, buddy." I don't know what happened after those 30 seconds, but it's like I lifted up out of that, the weight came off of me, and he started releasing dramatically.
I'll be honest. I have no idea why he chose me to do that. I didn't know that was gonna happen. I don't know how to do stuff like that with horses. But he was looking for some way to unload this garbage that had been put on him. I don't know what my hands were doing, but my hands said, "Bring it to me. I'll take it."
I was really trying hard not to cry because I didn't want to look like a weirdo with this new client. But I'm telling you, both me and that horse felt really light and almost euphoric after. That horse did not come around to bite at me at all that entire massage.
Physically he was incredibly tight. It wasn't just one section, it was his entire body. He had areas that didn't look normal because of the tension that was beneath. He had huge knots in his glutes that affected an area about the size of a dinner plate. You could press down on the knot and it would move an entire area. His poll had tension, face had tension, shoulders were really tight with restrictive range of motion. His ribs were super tight with blocks of fascia restriction. He had two knots in different areas on both glutes.
I was able to help him unload that emotional baggage and release it. Thankfully, neither of us carried it forward. And physically, I was able to dramatically reduce the tension throughout his body.
From that day forward, that horse continued to make positive improvements. It was a huge transformation. The owner continued the massage because I said, "I need to see him again." I didn't ask if I could see him again. I didn't say I think I should. I said, "I need to see him again." She was happy to have him put on a schedule, so he got regular massage.
When I came back to massage him, he was completely different. The improvement was remarkable. The owner continued with regular massages and did Journey Through the Horse with him, so not only did he receive ongoing bodywork from me, but he was able to build a positive, healthy relationship with his owner. He's never been the same.
GM: What do you wish more riders understood about the relationship between their own nervous system and their horse's behavior?
ES: Horses are masters of intention. They pick up on everything—our tone, our body language, our breathing. How our mental state is plays a huge role in how horses are going to respond to us.
I see this a lot with people doing Journey Through the Horse. Sometimes my advice is simple: just take a deep breath and cock your leg. Just relax a little bit. Because if your intention is to get a job done or to accomplish a task, then you're not considering the factors that this is another living, breathing animal.
We get stuck in our own heads. We're trying to learn something or accomplish something, but the horse is saying they hate what you're doing. And because we're so focused on our goal, we just continue doing something they don't like. Then it escalates and nobody wins, and people and horses get frustrated. I see that a lot in the horse world.
A lot of times I just say, "Can you take a breath?" And they'll go, "Oh yeah, yeah." And I go, "No, I'm talking to you, not the horse."
If you can just take a break sometimes and check in with yourself—what's your tone saying? What's your body language saying? What's your breathing saying?—you'll see a huge shift in your horse. They're a mirror for what we're carrying.
GM: Looking ahead, what dreams or projects are you excited about for Winning Your Horse’s Heart?
ES: As of right now, I am just continuing to get as much info as I can out about how incorporating massage and bodywork into your horsemanship can and will transform the relationship people have with their horses. I think if people knew how much of an impact they can have on their own horse, emotionally and physically, with a little help, everyone would be excited to give it a try. Some of the people who have joined my coaching group or done Journey Through The Horse with me have transformed their horse physically and emotionally in ways they never thought they could. I joke that my lifetime goal is to make every equine massage practitioner unemployed. Scouring the streets for work. Horse owners now know how to help their horses not only be soft and supple but stay soft and supple, so there is no need for massage therapists to be employed. Unlikely, but, wouldn’t that be great.
I am also keeping my options open about how I can help. I have found an increasing amount of licensed and practicing massage practitioners are taking my course to get better in their field. The feedback I am getting from them is that, by taking my course and working with me one-on-one their confidence in what they are doing is going past what they learned in school. I’m helping them take the book work and apply it to real life massage situations. This is what my podcast is about. I call it Tales from the Field. Real life massage. School is great starting point and required in most states, but what about after school and you while you are still working through stuff. I have found myself and my course and coaching group sliding into those spots. So, I guess I would say, I am going where I am most needed.
GM: What does horsemanship mean to you?
ES: That's ever-evolving, I think, because the more you start to have these glimpses into who horses are, individually and as horses, it changes. I started out thinking horsemanship was being good at training a horse. Then it became being good at training a horse and having a better understanding of how they think. Then it was realizing you can have this relationship with them, this communication that goes both directions. That is amazing. You can get to know them on a level kind of like you know people, kind of like you know your kids. You know how they're gonna respond in certain situations. You can tell if they like something or don't like something. You can tell if they need help with something or if they're just having a bad day. You can tell if there's something wrong just based off of a look.
I remember Georgia, my mare. She is so stoic. She's a working horse through and through. She doesn't like a lot of attention. She certainly does not like cuddles or love or kisses. She wants to have a job, wants to do it well, and then she wants to be turned out. She doesn't want a lot of extra stuff, and I respect that about her.
I had this other horse I was fostering, a thoroughbred, and he was a walking accident. He would come in with cuts all the time. He was cutting himself, on himself. I told him, "You're gonna have to make better life choices because I'm not good at this doctoring stuff. One day I went out there and I was doctoring him up from a simple scratch that shouldn’t have made his leg swell, but it did.
I looked over at Georgia and she was giving me a face that I had never seen before. I said, "What's going on?" She just kept that face. She didn't move, but she kept that face. “What does that face mean? I have never seen that face on you before.” I walked up to her stall and looked at her and she backed up, but she didn't change that face. I was so confused. "Are you okay? What's happening here?"
I slid open the door and walked in. I started looking at her. "Are you okay?" She didn't look like she was in pain, but it was a very intense stare at me like she wanted my attention ASAP. "Where is it, Georgia? What’s going on?" She kept giving me that same look.
I went to her back leg and I saw this tiny little cut. Tiny. It was a half an inch scratch, with a little bit of blood. I pointed at it and said, "Is this what you're looking at me like that for?" When I pointed at it and asked her that question, she dropped her head and started licking her lips. She put her head up and down like three times while she was licking her lips.
“Oh my gosh, are you serious? You have a cut. I was paying attention to some other horse and not you, and you have a cut on your leg and you need my attention right now.” "You got it, babe. Absolutely. 100%." She never gets hurt, so I was like, 100%. I'm going to doctor you up right now. I got you covered.
That was her second cut ever since I've owned her. I said, "Okay, I'm gonna go get some cream. I'm gonna put some on that, and we're gonna make sure that you feel really good." I went into the tack room and got some corona cream. I got a little dab on it and said, "Okay, I'm gonna put this on your leg, okay? You're gonna be all better.” The horse version of kiss the boo-boo.
I put that cream on and then I patted her and said, "All right, you're okay now? Are you okay?" Instantly she was back to her normal old self. She nodded—you know, that queen's nod that I talked about earlier—and she was like, yeah, okay, we're good, as long as you know that I'm still number one. “I never doubted it for a moment, my love.”
She doesn't get hurt very often, but when she does, she made it clear, she wants priority. That right there is horsemanship to me. I could tell based off of a look that I had never seen before that I knew something was wrong, and I knew exactly what she needed for it to be better.
I mean, we still can't canter a relaxed circle, but when she has a cut that she wants me to take a look at, you got it. That, to me, is pretty awesome. Those are my goals now. I don't have goals of ribbons or trophies or placements or anything like that. But if I can tell that my horse needs my attention by a look from across the pasture, that's it for me. That's all I need. So there's horsemanship for you.
Connect with Erin…
https://linktr.ee/winningyourhorsesheart
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